Legend of Grimrock: New Dungeon Master?

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Bill Loguidice
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Thanks, Rob, for the info on

Thanks, Rob, for the info on the compass. Yes, that's pretty subtle and seemingly only useful for when you're not using the automap. Thanks too to Clok, that's a good tip about the spears being usable from the back row if I'm understanding you correctly. I'll try that when I play again late tonight...

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Rowdy Rob
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Compass
Bill Loguidice wrote:

I too found the compass, but not the mortar and pestle. I'll worry about the latter when I find it, but how do you use the compass? I didn't notice a difference when equipped in a hand. I assumed it was useful only when you didn't have an automap...

Unless I'm misunderstanding your question, the use of the compass is pretty straightforward. You equip the compass in a hand, and the compass needle visually changes as you face different directions. You might have missed it, since it's just a small compass image in the hand, but it does change. With "automap," I don't see a use for it (so far).

clok1966
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I'm not sure what to say

I'm not sure what to say about the magic. At first as I was playing I figured it was almost worthless. Spears (on back 2) and all melee seemed the way to go as while magic did better damage, it used mana at a pretty high rate. My opinion on magic has changed greatly.. I think 2 mages and 2 fighters might be the best combo. I have had no issues with the magic ssytem, its the one DM used.. Magic does more damge, hence its suposed to be harder to use. I'm failry certian a group of 4 mages would OWN this game. The skelton warrior group was a bit of a problem till .. i started magic useing and skipped melee..

Of course this may all change later.. as for now, the tough spots are much easier now that Im useing magic.. almost trivial now.

Bill Loguidice
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LOG
Matt Barton wrote:

I finally found the compass (not very useful with the automap) and the morter and pestle. Finally, I know how to use herbs! I wish they'd dropped in a tooltip earlier that said you need some items to use the herbs; I thought I had just missed something in the manual.

Still enjoying the game.

I too found the compass, but not the mortar and pestle. I'll worry about the latter when I find it, but how do you use the compass? I didn't notice a difference when equipped in a hand. I assumed it was useful only when you didn't have an automap...

I like that the game tracks stats. I'll be curious how long it takes each of us to finish a game. I know I'm taking my sweet time to enjoy the ride. I wonder if it will be 10 hours, 20 hours, etc. Very curious... Whatever it is, it will have been well worth it for the $11.99...

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Matt Barton
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Hi, Rob, that room has a neat

Hi, Rob, that room has a neat trick--you can get the soldiers to step onto the platform, then step on the corresponding pressure plate to drop them right into a pit! I guess you don't get XP for doing it, but it's still fun.

I finally found the compass (not very useful with the automap) and the morter and pestle. Finally, I know how to use herbs! I wish they'd dropped in a tooltip earlier that said you need some items to use the herbs; I thought I had just missed something in the manual.

Still enjoying the game.

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Rowdy Rob
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Grimrock/DM magic system is almost game-breakingly clunky.
Bill Loguidice wrote:

You know, it's a debatable design decision. It's actually a fairly "realistic" type of magic system and creates a depth that is hard to capture in a videogame otherwise. I can see how it's annoying, just like having to eat is annoying.

I agree with Matt. The rune system is extremely frustrating during combat, especially when you're fighting off multiple attackers. The problem is that while you're fumbling around trying to select the proper runes, your other party members are helpless, unable to attack or move! The frustration is especially felt when enemies are coming at you in multiple directions. In a game like this, where sidestepping is crucial, having your party "frozen" while you frantically fumble with the runes panel is not only suicidal, it's not particularly realistic concerning your other party members either.

Am I on a rant here!??!? The magic system needs macros, as Matt said. I'm still having trouble fumbling around with the movement system as it is, and the clunky magic system on top of that is making combat an aggravating experience, to say the least.

Bill Loguidice wrote:

By the way, I consider the auto map (with the ability to enter your own notes) a critical update. I know there's an old school graph paper option where you can record each tile yourself, but I couldn't possibly imagine wanting to do that on my own these days...

The automap is a crucial feature for me, too. I don't at all miss whipping out the graph paper for playing CRPG's. However, I'm not so sure I wouldn't trade the automap for a better spellcasting system! That's how bad I'm hating the spell system.

Still, great game overall! Right now, I'm stuck on level 3, where I'm trapped in a room with undead soldiers coming at me from all sides. (The room with the pit trap in the center, you'll know what I'm talking about if you've been to the room.) Yes, the spell system is a major pain in this room!

Spell macros and automap. I want them both!

Update: made it past the "undead soldier trap" room. Turns out I figured out how to fight the soldiers without going into the room, picking them off one by one. Now I'm stuck on a "Teleport" puzzle room. :-(

Don't fall into pits on this level!

Matt Barton
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Agreed. Though if you're

Agreed. Though if you're gonna go with the automapper, I don't see why a macro spell system would've been cheating. ;)

In any case, I commend them for doing such a good job. I'm having a great time with this so far.

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Bill Loguidice
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Matt Barton wrote:

I never liked the magic system in DM either, so I'm not happy about their being faithful there. Guess they really wanted to clone it, warts and all. Or are there people who actually LIKE that rune system?

I wouldn't mind it if it'd remember successful combinations and have them ready as macros or some such. Maybe that functionality is in there but just not covered in the manual.

No, there are no macros or anything, you have to enter it in each time. You can however queue up a spell to have it ready to go. Your reference materials are the scrolls.

You know, it's a debatable design decision. It's actually a fairly "realistic" type of magic system and creates a depth that is hard to capture in a videogame otherwise. I can see how it's annoying, just like having to eat is annoying. Still, as one of many nods to the source material, I certainly personally don't mind them using those two potentially tedious elements. It certainly adds to the nostalgia if nothing else. While I could probably do without the chores of torch and food management, I'm not sure I'd want a different magic system. It's kind of part of the challenge of this particular style of game for me...

By the way, I consider the auto map (with the ability to enter your own notes) a critical update. I know there's an old school graph paper option where you can record each tile yourself, but I couldn't possibly imagine wanting to do that on my own these days...

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Matt Barton
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I never liked the magic

I never liked the magic system in DM either, so I'm not happy about their being faithful there. Guess they really wanted to clone it, warts and all. Or are there people who actually LIKE that rune system?

I wouldn't mind it if it'd remember successful combinations and have them ready as macros or some such. Maybe that functionality is in there but just not covered in the manual.

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Bill Loguidice
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Matt Barton wrote:

I played for a little over an hour. Going to restart because I forgot to create a rogue. :)

Magic system is pretty confusing; don't know how to use herbs. Manual is garbage. Lots of niggling things that bother me...do you do more damage if you dual wield? They really dropped the ball on the documentation.

More to like than dislike though. Definitely liking the ambiance and it DOES feel just like DM felt back in the day, though brought up to modern times. :)

Magic works very much like Dungeon Master... You need to LEARN spells (rune sequences) before you can cast them, and then only to your skill level. I'm on the second level and my spellcaster still can't cast spells, though I've found several scrolls that explain how to cast them (they're as simple as clicking on one rune). What's neat is that the spells are specific to your game, so you can't cheat, but you can experiment (or guess) like in Dungeon Master. So, for a while, your spellcaster is going to be limited to throwing stuff from the back row... I'm actually also trying to level up my back row rogue to be able to melee attack from the back row.

As for the manual/documentation, the in-game tutorial pretty much explains everything you need. It's pretty simple. Basically just the movement keys, mouse, tab for map, and escape for the menu. Everything else works like Dungeon Master. You need torches to see better and you need to eat food not to starve, for instance.

Dual wielding doesn't exist, but you will find shields and other protective items that can go in the second hand that work with your main attack. You can actually dual wield, but you still have the same cycle refresh rate regardless of which hand you click on, so there's no benefit other than to have ready another weapon if your first weapon is a throwing weapon. You can also stack some weapons, like rocks.

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